The Argument: Better Architecture Everyday
The Argument: Better Architecture Everyday
Intelligent Customer Interactions: Beyond Traditional Customer Journeys with Arjen Bonsing
Traditional customer journeys are becoming obsolete. The Intelligent Customer Interaction (ICI) system represents the future of personalized engagement—a sophisticated framework that targets content based on each customer's unique profile, history, and real-time objectives.
Marketing automation is evolving rapidly, and as Arjen Bonsing explains, businesses must adapt to customers' increasing expectations for personalized experiences across all touchpoints. The approach requires fundamental shifts in how organizations measure success, moving from aggregate metrics to individual-level scorecards that track engagement, lifetime value development, and interaction frequency. These metrics feed algorithms that deliver precisely targeted content at the optimal moment.
The implementation framework consists of six interconnected "gear wheels" starting with ID and privacy considerations, then expanding to content targeting, organizational orchestration, KPI frameworks, IT infrastructure, and ultimately transforming business models. What makes this approach particularly powerful is how it begins with the customer experience and works backward to define the necessary organizational changes. Rather than lengthy planning cycles, companies can start with collaborative "user stories" that involve all stakeholders—from marketing and IT to legal and compliance—creating shared ownership of the personalization strategy.
Technology plays a dual role in this transformation—not merely as an enabler but as an accelerator, with AI and large language models creating new possibilities for human-like interactions. This evolution inevitably impacts business models, as companies discover opportunities beyond their traditional offerings. For business architects, marketers, and customer experience professionals, mastering this framework represents both a significant challenge and a tremendous opportunity to differentiate in increasingly competitive markets.
Ready to transform your approach to customer engagement? Join Arjen Bonsing's comprehensive course on the Intelligent Customer Interaction framework. Register at https://netherlands.iasaglobal.org/ and be part of the personalization revolution that's already reshaping customer experiences worldwide.
Hello, all, welcome to the Argument. I am Paul Price. This is my personal and professional podcast series where I get to argue with people, and for those of you who don't know what a group of architects is called an argument, because we have to maintain about three truths in our head all at one time. So if you find yourself having to deal with three different realities, this is the podcast for you. You can sign up for the podcast here on the link provided with this video. And today I have Arjen Bonsing. Sorry, arjen, the Dutch pronunciation is a little tough for me. Welcome to the argument, thank you, thank, tough for me. Uh, welcome to the welcome to the argument thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. Uh, paul, and never mind I listen to anything, and aryan is great, so that's fine all right.
Speaker 1:Well, so today we're going to talk about marketing automation, but we're also going to talk a little bit about the changing nature of our front-end systems and how it is that we interact with customers. Right Now. You are the inventor of the Intelligent Customer Interaction Framework. How do you call it? The ICI?
Speaker 2:I call it the ICI system and it stands for Intelligent Customer Interaction. But it is a system. It consists of models and methods that you apply in order to get to this reality of individual customer interaction. And I heard you mention customer journeys, and actually this is the next level of customer journeys. Customer journeys are starting with the idea of that there is a customer journey and this system starts with that. Customers have a objective, have a goal, and that happens on many different interactions they have with you. You have to be able to target your content to that individual based on its profile, based on the history, but also based on the actual objective they have at that point in time. And that is where it gets complicated and that is where you have to structure. That goes way beyond defining five, six, seven, 1,200 journeys. It means that every piece of content has to be targeted individually based on that customer history, that customer profile and that customer needs at that point in time.
Speaker 1:Well, so you said customer profile, so let's go back to old school questions like what's a customer, what's a customer segment? Are those still valuable? How do we want to think about so? I mean again, as we get to mass personalization in all things, to mass personalization in all things what does it mean for us to define our customer anymore in this system? Do you see this changing how we think about customers overall? And everybody's a potential customer if we can personalize enough or is there still some structured decision-making up front?
Speaker 2:Well, that's actually at the heart of the method, and the heart of the method is how you target that content on an individual level. But that, in answer to your question, that means that you need different KPIs than we have at this point. You have to have those KPIs at an individual level. So you have to have a scorecard on every customer that not is about only traditional metrics, but also about what is actually the engagement, what is the lifetime value, but what is also the value development in the past 12 months, so that you can match that with the trends. It is not the traditional metrics you use on an overall level, it is individual values that you can also aggregate to the top level so that you get, well, at the top of the model. You have five dimensions where you follow that customer value development and that enable to trigger that content based on that development. You see at that point. So that is where you need that individual on an individual level. You need to be able to register what the development of that customer is. What is the development of the lifetime value? What is the development of the engagement? What is the development of, well, the interaction frequency. So you need different parameters that you use as ingredients to feed your algorithms to trigger exactly the right content at exactly the right moment. And understanding the intent of the customer. And that's where technology helps enormously. That is what is one of the key drivers of the interaction at that instant, based on what you know of somebody.
Speaker 2:And it starts very simple. If it's a first-time customer, you don't have any profile data. You only have where they originate from or where they introduce your process. But if they are returning customers, you have a history. That means that you don't have to show them everything that you have to show a new customer. And if they become a loyal customer, then you start to understand what you have to do to engage better with them. But you also get new parameters of what you want to look at. Is my data completeness of you? Is that good enough, or do I, instead of let you make the next purchase, build a deeper engagement and ask you for more personalized details so that I get a better understanding of what you want and what you need? So it gets far more to a dialog and you need all the ingredients to have the dialog and it's not simply you have to do the next transaction.
Speaker 2:I want to know. I want to get to know you better, Paul. I want to understand why you're buying with me, how I can help you. So I need that kind of data, that interaction frequency, that data completeness. How do I understand you? So that's the core of what it is on a data level and that's what you have to define as an organization. And that means that all the data that sits in all those various databases, and sometimes even hidden in the databases of departments, you have to get that into. You have to make it accessible. So you have to create an infrastructure where that data becomes available and you have to define the algorithms that know what content to trigger, based on your profile, your intent at that moment and your history and who you are.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about the implementation of this If I'm going to actually go do this, I'm going to take your course.
Speaker 1:What am I going to go learn? What are the steps that the people that I need to work with Now? Presumably there is some form of real-time or near real-time controller of these interactions and content items that bring about right. Is this on my website? Is this on sales calls? Is this on, you know, marketing flyers? Obviously, you know, we've got a lot of different customer interactions, including service calls, et cetera. Where do I start? How do I take this down to some steps that I could land a home run in 90 days, because my CMO and my CIO don't have a 12-month cycle for me to adapt to. What do I do, arne?
Speaker 2:Well, maybe if we look at what we do in the course structure, it's easy to get down to where the essence of the system sits. If you agree that we're heading for an individual age, that people go accustomed to very personalized interactions, then as an organization you have to meet that standard. People are getting used to it. Wherever they go If it's to the doctor, if it's to Amazon or wherever they go they get increasingly more personalized interactions. So if you have to meet that, you have to define what is your ambition of personalization you want and whether you're a B2B or a B2C company, you have to define what is your ambition on that and that determines the kind of infrastructure you need to create. But that's not all. The technology will become available and that's what we see due to the development of AI and especially large language models, where we can well, computers can start to interact human-like. But that's not all. The real essence is how you structure that in your organization, that way of working, and that is because it is not that one channel. You need to be able to do that in every channel, so every interaction you create, and that's why we created the gear wheel, for we looked at all the dimensions in your organization that you need to control and that need to cooperate in creating those interactions and to create a business structure around it. So that is where the essence of the method actually, or the system actually sits, and those are six gear wheels that we're going to be talking about in detail in the course and also a way of working around it, because it looks complex but we make it very simple. And if you look at the gear wheels, that is ID and privacy. That's the starting one, because if you don't have the permission of people to get their data and to enrich their data and if you don't have the mentality in your organization to do that in a legal and compliant way, then it doesn't work, then you can't start personalizing any which way.
Speaker 2:Then if you look at, if you start personalizing more detailed, then you need content and you have to be able to understand the intent of people in order to target that content. What are you coming for? What is your profile? But also what is my intent with you? What do I want to achieve in this interaction? So it's not one way, it's the business perspective and the customer perspective, and if you want to do that, then you need a different kind of organization and a different kind of orchestration. How do you manage to target that content? Who owns the algorithms that you use? Who sets the priorities? If you can adjust every content element in every interaction with the customer, how do you structure and organize that process? What is the KPI framework?
Speaker 2:You have to define those business rules and those algorithms, and that is where IT and data intelligence, of course, plays an enormous role, and in this model, not only as the facilitator of the process, but also as the accelerator of the process, because what we see is the technology is developing so fast at this moment that you actually want IT and data intelligence departments to feed the process in the organization.
Speaker 2:It is not asking the organization what do you want to do or where do you imagine we are going. It is also feeding the organization with the fast pace of developments and the new opportunities that arise and creating an infrastructure that enables that, that is adaptable. And if you start doing that, then you are going to look at your proposition and business models, or what you see is that all companies that adapt this kind of personalization, um, suddenly discover that they don't sell, and I've been doing a lot of work for insurers that they don't just sell an insurance, but that they maybe can sell your solar panels and your solar panel insurance, but also the battery that you have and actually your whole home management system, and that's something different. Then they become something different, and that is in many cases and in many industries that happens. So you always have to be aware of, hey, what happens when I start acting with my customers on this way and if I create this interaction, where is the money? Where is the business model? Where is my? What does it do to my proposition?
Speaker 1:let me ask you a question, then that's a lot of definition up front. Is there a way to start seeing the benefit of this approach, now, right Meaning is there a way that we can start changing our thinking? Now, what's great is it sounds like a wonderful combination of technology and business, which, of course, we architects love that moment in time. But what do you think is the kind of how do we start getting people to think this way? Because, again, that's a pretty radical change of thought process there that could use a quick home run. Are there any low-hanging fruit, as it were?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a couple and that's actually also reflected in the structure. But to answer your question in the most practical sense, this gear wheel sounds complex and contains a lot of ingredients, but actually in reality, you can work with it in a very simple way and that's what we call working backwards user stories. So if you because all of this starts with putting the customer at the core what is the benefit for Paul if we do this, if we create the structure or automate this process? So if you start always with defining what does this do to Paul or any specific customer we try to address with this strategy, with this interaction or whatever, if you always start from the customer and define what do we want to achieve, and actually that's what Amazon does.
Speaker 2:Looking back, five years from now and have that customer tell what they experienced.
Speaker 2:But if you do that and use this gear wheel I've just explained, you get a story that everybody can understand and that can start with the strategic story what do we want to pull, how do we want to develop pull and our business with all the pulls we've got, and what do we have to do, what do we have to do in our IT, in our legal and compliance, in our content and in order to make that work?
Speaker 2:And if you define that story that describes what Paul is going to experience, then you can, at the back, look at hey, and what does that do to all those six gear wheels, what does that do to the various department? How does that fit into the existing roadmaps, so that you also know what is a realistic timeframe to develop things or to change priorities. And the other thing that you get out of it is and how does that create value On which of the five parameters we were talking about earlier, that dashboard and that customer scorecard, on which dimension is that benefit? So you get a business case and you can get an implementation scenario right after something simple as defining what Paul is going to experience in the next couple of five years.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about people here for a second, because it sounds to me like those organizations that already have business architects working deeply with their marketing, their product owners, their salespeople, et cetera, are going to have a distinct advantage here. Right, You're going to have customer personas, You're going to have objectives, you're going to have quotes, you're going to have journeys, et cetera. How much do we need in terms of data science to you know? How much of this belongs to marketing and they're going to get immediately. How much to sales, how much to customer service. It sounds like I'm going to have a rethink job going on in my business planning process and it sounds amazing, especially if we're already on that journey towards better business architecture and better business outcomes. But where's that starter? Who are the groups that are going to make this successful?
Speaker 2:Well, the essence of the method actually is and that's built on my experience with actually those large insurance companies is that you have to involve all the stakeholders from the various departments and you don't have to do long sessions. You can organize a very structured and fast process. But if you involve all the people that are needed to in the end create that solution and you need the expertise of the various departments if you put them in the room right from the start and create a structured process and create a user story and have the ingredients in that user story that draw back on what they have to do and how they can create value with it, then you get a shared development. It is not one department. It is not one department. It is not one department that can do it. The complexity of hyper-personalization is that you need everybody to be involved and so you have to make them part of the process and have to restructure the process. So this is not a large and big discussions. This is, together with all the stakeholders, defined what do we want to achieve and what is needed to achieve that, and then from there start detailing it. But then it's detailing based on the involvement.
Speaker 2:I've been in many projects where legal and compliance at the end was asked to give their approval to what was being developed, the most common response is we can't do that. One of the biggest deceit in those projects was, if we made them part of the development, they suddenly came with hey, but if you start doing this and do this, then you can do that and you're allowed to do that. So you use the expertise and the ingenuity of the stakeholders you need to create it involvement and that way of working, that holistic way of working and that collaborative way of working that is essential to being able to uh, to develop this kind of, this kind of personalization well, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1:All right, I uh want to remind our audience that you can actually learn this technique. Uh, the. I believe the kickoff of the course is September 22nd, is that true? Yeah, yeah, so you can learn this online with Arian. He'll walk you through the methods, the engagement. You can sign up for that on netherlandsisoglobalorg. You can go to the ICIA event and look at the detailed syllabus and see what kinds of techniques Aryan's teaching in those courses. You're going to be speaking at some other engagements in the Netherlands, are you not?
Speaker 2:Yes, but I'm not quite sure about the planning, paul, about the dates yet.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, we'll come back and we'll dig in a little bit further, but I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and I really appreciate starting to dig into a little business architecture and a little bit of the wave of change that is coming to the world, it appears.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and especially to the world of business architects, because you're one of the business. Architects are one of the key components, or the key players in this entire change, so the role of architects is incredibly important in this field.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much and for all of you listening, I will be doing a podcast a week from now on out and you can expect to see the recordings of those. On the ISO Global Mighty Network. There'll be some full member only events as well as some open for all things. It is a free community for architects at Mighty Network. You can look up ISA Global and you'll find it there. I'll be sending out a whole bunch of invites for you guys to attend upcoming events, of invites for you guys to attend upcoming events, reaching out to some of my Thought Leader partners in the field to actually dig into what the changes in architecture and in technology and, as Arjen said, business are going to be, to help you and your orgs get prepared.